Scripture Romans 5:11
Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. (NIV)
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. (KJV)
Comment
Radio callers question
In trying to make the jump to a belief in Christianity, one of the key things I get confused about is the “atonement”.
Why was there not another way other than the crucifixion of Jesus to atone for our sins?
It seems a harsh roundabout way achieving what God wanted.
The word atonement, which is almost the only theological term of English origin, has a curious history.
The verb "atone", from the adverbial phrase "at one" (M.E. at oon), at first meant to reconcile, or make "at one"; from this it came to denote the action by which such reconciliation was effected, e.g. satisfaction for all offense or an injury.
"For God indeed was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself" (2 Corinthians 5:19).
Source: www.newadvent.org
Response from Radio Guest
The atonement actually begins with the incarnation and God cared about us enough that He would want to become one of us.
He made us in His image.
We were spiritual, we were intelligent, we had creative thoughts, imagination, language.
We were made in His image and then we rebelled against Him.
God cannot tolerate sin.
God created the world to be good and to be holy like He is.
Man brought sin into the world.
As CS Lewis put it – we are not straight anymore, now we are bent and broken.
God loved us enough that He sent His son to become one of us, to relate to us but then also to pay the penalty that would have been due to us.
In other words, if I am a criminal and I kill someone and I break the law and I am in prison and then I am going to face the death sentence for that.
Somebody can come along and say ‘you know, I will take the death penalty for him, I will very graciously take his place if you let him go.’
Now this actually happened by the way in Auschwitz in 1941 with Maximillian Kolbe who voluntariliy took the place and died for another man and the man was set free.
And so this is somewhat what God did.
He came down in human form to die for humanity and take their place and in effect said I am going to show them how much I love them by doing this.
The interesting thing is, if you were in prison and on death row for murder and I came along and said I will take you place, that’s fine. But I am one limited person who can only be an exchange for one other limited person. The beauty of what Jesus did is that He is an infinite person and therefore He could die for an infinite number of people and save them. Now the reason I think, and when I watched Mel Gibsons movie the Passion of the Christ, this came to my mind – “Why is it so gruesome? Why is this so gory? Why did He have to go through this?”
And I think it was God trying to demonstrate how horrendous and egregious and wicked and upturning sin really is. It is not viewed by God or the church that sin is ‘oh we did something wrong, slap us on the hand’ but that sin is really a violation of the general rule that God made for the world and His moral code. And by violating that it does such damage not only to mankind but to all creation. It was so egregious and awful and wicked that only the crucifixion and a death like that could show and demonstrate how really bad it was and the consequences it brought about.
I think at the moment of Jesus death on the Cross was one of God’s most glorious moments. Jesus said ‘when I am raised up’ He is almost viewing this as being put upon a throne, the highest moment of a King, in all His glory. Jesus saw being raised up on the Cross as that pinnacle moment. It was at that moment where God who is Love by His very nature demonstrated to mankind how pure and powerful His love is. That He was willing to do that for us who didn’t even deserve it. How could you demonstrate love more than by that act?
Only God could come down and wipe out the sin and save us from the corruption that we have buried ourselves in and that is why I think we have the atonement.
(follow up question from radio caller)
Do you think that Jesus being God could have done it with a snap of His fingers?
He could have done something like that.
If I was Him I would have had a different reaction.
I would have said ‘you disobeyed, you are now living in sin and squalor and completely egregious behaviour. I am going to wipe you off the face of the earth’
I am not as loving as He is, I would have said ‘I am going to let you just rot in your choices’.
Maybe God could have snapped His fingers and done it, but because God is holy and just there is a requirement that justice be taken care of.
It is like in my family with my kids, I can over and over again overlook an evil done by one of my children but I know that if I have a great sense of justice that justice has to be done. If one son is beating up on another son all of the time I can’t just forgive him and ignore it I have to actually step in and rectify that.
And that is what God did. He came in and rectified it. He actually satisfied His own justice.
(the caller add’s in that he is beginning to understand the concept and that in his words ‘it basically comes down to justice, it is a combination of love plus justice’)
That is a very good point.
If God by His very nature is ‘just’ and ‘loving’, how can He satisfy both of those qualities of justice and of love?
In Love, God wants to forgive.
In Justice, God has to exact punishment and make things right.
But with Him and coming down and taking the punishment Himself, He satisfied both aspects of justice and love.
Source: Transcribed from the Catholic Answers Live radio show – Episode ca091023a
titled "Open Forum for Non-Catholics"
with guest Steve Ray
Showing posts with label Romans. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Romans. Show all posts
Tuesday, May 10, 2011
Wednesday, June 9, 2010
Romans 5: 2-5 Suffering
Romans 5: 2-5
Through him we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit which has been given to us.
Comment
A very universal experience with respect to suffering especially when it is severe and hits at the root of your physical, and maybe psychological, integrity it tends to reveal your deepest loves and deepest hates.
I spoke with an oncology nurse a few years back and she explained that in the paediatric ward the parents would come in to see their children suffering and pretty much one of two things happen.
Either they are solidified in their love and their faith or they are broken apart and hatred comes out.
The cross, not just Christ, but the two next to Him reveal a lot about how we ought to react to suffering.
The bad thief on the cross reacts with a hatred, a rancour against God and other people.
Christ reacts to His suffering by recognising this is the Fathers will for good even though it is breaking Him ‘to the bone’.
The good thief recognises that he deserves it but Christ does not.
There is a lot to be revealed there but in suffering, our deepest loves or lack of love will be revealed if the sufferings are acute enough.
Source: Michael Sirilla – “Franciscan University Presents”
Through him we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit which has been given to us.
Comment
A very universal experience with respect to suffering especially when it is severe and hits at the root of your physical, and maybe psychological, integrity it tends to reveal your deepest loves and deepest hates.
I spoke with an oncology nurse a few years back and she explained that in the paediatric ward the parents would come in to see their children suffering and pretty much one of two things happen.
Either they are solidified in their love and their faith or they are broken apart and hatred comes out.
The cross, not just Christ, but the two next to Him reveal a lot about how we ought to react to suffering.
The bad thief on the cross reacts with a hatred, a rancour against God and other people.
Christ reacts to His suffering by recognising this is the Fathers will for good even though it is breaking Him ‘to the bone’.
The good thief recognises that he deserves it but Christ does not.
There is a lot to be revealed there but in suffering, our deepest loves or lack of love will be revealed if the sufferings are acute enough.
Source: Michael Sirilla – “Franciscan University Presents”
Romans 8:18 Suffering
Romans 8:18
I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
Reflection - No Suffering, No Love
God has so loved us that he gave himself up for us: This is the message of the Cross, 'mystery of death and of glory.'"
"The cross reminds us that there is no true love without suffering, there is no gift of life without pain,"
We have two treasures of the Christian faith: the Holy Spirit and the cross."
The Spirit opens human intelligence to horizons that surpass it and makes it understand the beauty and truth of God's love revealed, in fact, on the cross.
A love of which no one will be able to separate us, and that is experienced by giving one's life as Christ did.
Source: Pope Benedict XVI - General audience at the Vatican - SEPT. 17, 2008
I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
Reflection - No Suffering, No Love
God has so loved us that he gave himself up for us: This is the message of the Cross, 'mystery of death and of glory.'"
"The cross reminds us that there is no true love without suffering, there is no gift of life without pain,"
We have two treasures of the Christian faith: the Holy Spirit and the cross."
The Spirit opens human intelligence to horizons that surpass it and makes it understand the beauty and truth of God's love revealed, in fact, on the cross.
A love of which no one will be able to separate us, and that is experienced by giving one's life as Christ did.
Source: Pope Benedict XVI - General audience at the Vatican - SEPT. 17, 2008
2 Tim 4:21 Linus and Clement
Romans 10:17-18
So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ.
But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have; for "Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world."
2 Tim 4:21
Do your best to come before winter. Eubu'lus sends greetings to you, as do Pudens and Linus and Claudia and all the brethren.
Excerpt
The blessed apostles, then,
having founded and built up the Church,
committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate.
Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy.
To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric.
This man, as
he had seen the blessed apostles,
and had been conversant with them,
might be said to have
the preaching of the apostles still echoing in his ears,
and their traditions before his eyes.
Nor was he alone in this, for
there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles.
In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome despatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spake with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels.
Source: IRENAEUS OF LYONS A.D. 120–202. - AGAINST HERESIES - BOOK III. Ch 3: verse 3
So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ.
But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have; for "Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world."
2 Tim 4:21
Do your best to come before winter. Eubu'lus sends greetings to you, as do Pudens and Linus and Claudia and all the brethren.
Excerpt
The blessed apostles, then,
having founded and built up the Church,
committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate.
Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy.
To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric.
This man, as
he had seen the blessed apostles,
and had been conversant with them,
might be said to have
the preaching of the apostles still echoing in his ears,
and their traditions before his eyes.
Nor was he alone in this, for
there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles.
In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome despatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spake with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels.
Source: IRENAEUS OF LYONS A.D. 120–202. - AGAINST HERESIES - BOOK III. Ch 3: verse 3
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